I Was Right: Xbox 360 Will Kill Media Center

OK, it's not an official press release, but J Allard in an interview with Game Informer said that Microsoft is not ready to announce the different variations of the Xbox 360 console, but it will not be a "one-size-fits-all [approach] over the next five-year horizon." (via Pro-G)




So it's possible that an HD version will eventually be released (Engadget thinks so, as well).

ChrisL01 said: I'm sorry that you are making this so heated Alex. It really isn't worth my time here (as a member) to listen to this. :(

No problem... have fun at your Microsoft sponsored blog.

I'm sorry that you are making this so heated Alex. It really isn't worth my time here (as a member) to listen to this. :(




Take care





Chris Lanier

ChrisL01 said: Nothing funny about, here is the same information. I was asked by Microsoft to remove the first post, and happily did. Notice I say "According to Neowin" in my post. The information Tom Warren steals from Microsoft's eHome intranet page isn't my opinion, and isn't close to being set-in-stone by Microsoft.

So why post it and then tell everyone that Microsoft has never said anything? (That's kind of hypocritical when you've previously stated the same thing I'm saying. :confused: ) Sure... lots of the news that bloggers post have no official press releases, but it doesn't mean that many of those items don't exist or are not under development.

Again, Microsoft has never said anything. Neowin isn't Microsoft, last time I checked. ;)

What's more I'm getting a little tired of you acting as the mouthpiece for Microsoft. If you want to correct my facts, fine... but don't patronize me and the readers.

First off, debates like this should really be encouraged. It makes great reading.




Getting to the original issue though, I can't see xbox killing media, I actually would predict the opposite. Folks will but xbox as a gaming console first, then get a taste of what a media center is like. The problem with media center now is that there isn't much demand. xbox will help create that demand.





I still don't want a windows media center though. Not because of WMC or anything like that. I just don't see them meeting my 2 biggest requirements anytime soon. Ease of use and reliability.

Nothing funny about, here is the same information. I was asked by Microsoft to remove the first post, and happily did. Notice I say "According to Neowin" in my post. The information Tom Warren steals from Microsoft's eHome intranet page isn't my opinion, and isn't close to being set-in-stone by Microsoft.




Again, Microsoft has never said anything. Neowin isn't Microsoft, last time I checked. ;)

ChrisL01 said: Microsoft has never said Media Center will be rolled into Vista as a single version.

That's funny because Thomas Hawk got that information from a post on your site (which has since been edited -- "information removed upon request") :eek:




At the end of Thomas' post, he writes:

Looking deep into the future for 2006, Microsoft are planning a Media Center v5.0. Currently code named Diamond the release will rely upon Longhorn Premium and Longhorn Ultimate. These two editions of Longhorn are expected to include v5.0 of Media Center. Current dates are following the same pattern as the Longhorn schedule I posted recently.

Alexander Grundner said: 
Side note: Genius74, you might want to check out TwonkyVision UPnP Media Server application. It can be installed on either a PC or NAS (Windows XP, Macintosh and Linux compatible).

Thanks for the link... I didn't realize this was such a touchy heated convo... I know the big companies want Joe Sixpack to have his PC to be the central hub.. but a NAS would be great as the backbone of storage for Joe Techy...

Yes, the Xbox 360 is only supposed to be a WMC client. It's not supposed to be a server as you want it to be. Just as with other WMC devices, they don't push content out. The idea of Windows Media Connect is that it "lets you share the digital media files on your computer with digital media receivers (DMRs) that are connected to your home network." Xbox 360 = DMR




Microsoft has never said Media Center will be rolled into Vista as a single version. I think it would be a great idea, but just as with HD-DVD drives in the 360, Microsoft has never said such.





Xbox 360 support as a Media Center Extender will be in Media Center Rollup 2.





:)





Chris

What is there to be confused about? Xbox 360, if UPnP enabled, will be able to talk to any device on the network for sharing content from its hard drive (and visa versa). As Tim said, Microsoft is already going to roll media center into Vista and using the Xbox in conjunction with a TV set-top box negates the need to have a dedicated MCE PC. It's more probable that consumers will buy multiple Xboxs then buying multiple Windows Vista PCs (plus, in the next Windows XP service pack, Microsoft is throwing in Xbox 360 support). As for the point of "kill"... I think that's a bit overstated.




Unfortunately, I think the Xbox 360 will only support Windows Media Connect (not UPnP) -- Translation: it will only be able to communicate with Windows desktops, period.

I really don't know where to go with this, it's got so far away from the Xbox killing Media Cneter. :confused:




Looks like we will just have to wait and see what happens. Everyone knows what my money is on. :)





The only other thing I can really say is expect other devices (non-Microsoft) to build on the vision I have shared (Microsoft's??)





Chris Lanier

ChrisL01 said: NAS is cool, but how does that fall into what you guys have been saying about wanting different devices (eg Xbox) to store the content around your house? With NAS you can still centralize the storage to a single point, that's not what everyone told me they wanted yesterday. :confused: People don't care about how it works, right? What's the natural line to follow for people not caring how it works as a whole? Use what they already know. The PC.

Remember I said mixed environment. The NAS is part of the connected home ecosystem. For example, most homes will have multiple desktop PCs, multiple network devices (some with hard drives, some without), and possibly one or more media storage units. The point is... with open standards all these devices can communicate and distribute/share content.

If you don't want your desktop PC to access the content, that kills the point of all of this IMHO. The idea is to have all these devices share the ability to access. PC, Xbox, Phone, PDA, etc.

The PC can deliver this now! And when those rights issues get worked out, the ability to do this will be even greater, allowing more and different media to become part of the picture.You assume the PC is the supreme gatekeeper to content. IT'S NOT! Sure, the PC is the piece of the puzzle with the most brains, but if devices use UPnP, or even technologies like Bluetooth and USB OTG (On The Go), they can all communicate.





---





Side note: Genius74, you might want to check out TwonkyVision UPnP Media Server application. It can be installed on either a PC or NAS (Windows XP, Macintosh and Linux compatible).

NAS is cool, but how does that fall into what you guys have been saying about wanting different devices (eg Xbox) to store the content around your house? With NAS you can still centralize the storage to a single point, that's not what everyone told me they wanted yesterday. :confused: People don't care about how it works, right? What's the natural line to follow for people not caring how it works as a whole? Use what they already know. The PC.




If you don't want your desktop PC to access the content, that kills the point of all of this IMHO. The idea is to have all these devices share the ability to access. PC, Xbox, Phone, PDA, etc.





The PC can deliver this now! :) And when those rights issues get worked out, the ability to do this will be even greater, allowing more and different media to become part of the picture.





Chris

Genius74 said: I guess my whole thing about this is that I don't want to have my PC on to access my content.. I want to store my content on the Network (via a NAS) and have the 360 look at that for content. Would that be an option? Is that an option today for the Xbox Extender maybe not for the current Xbox, since it is an 'extender' for WMC)

Now you're thinking! I totally agree... why should you keep your desktop PC on (in this case MCE) to access your digital media around the house? Smart consumers, like Genius74, want flexiblity in how they access and share content. Since using a NAS is not part of Microsoft's MASTER PLAN, I'm guessing Chris Lanier and Michael Gartenberg won't find this solution acceptable :p

I guess my whole thing about this is that I don't want to have my PC on to access my content.. I want to store my content on the Network (via a NAS) and have the 360 look at that for content. Would that be an option? Is that an option today for the Xbox Extender maybe not for the current Xbox, since it is an 'extender' for WMC)

They don't care about the hardware - they want you to sign up for the service. And that's why I said the Xbox 360 will "kill" Media Center.

I'm not sure what service you are referring too, Tim. You mean Xbox Live!? Since free Xbox Live! as a standard service goes out with every Xbox 360, that's not going to be a huge point to built on in terms of media.

I don't think Microsoft cares one way or the other if people go with an Xbox, Media Center, or both as long as they get in people's living rooms as the digital hub.

The Xbox 360 isn't going to be a media hub, it's one of the access points for the hub, which is the Media Center PC.

Let's say the Xbox 360 is huge - really huge - so everyone has one. Do you really think that will drive Media Center PC sales?

Sure. I can access all the media on my PC and watch live TV, record TV, and timeshift TV from either my PC or my Xbox 360. That's a good reason to purchase a Media Center PC (or Media Center)

If anything, Microsoft will give Media Center away with Windows Vista release. Just make it part of the Home Edition and give it away - now you are locked into everyone's digital living room

But that doesn't "kill" Media Center, that would make it bigger (much) then it is today.

Or you give more features to the Xbox because while people won't put a PC in their living room they will put a game console.

Using a Media Center PC and an Xbox 360, you get those "more features" and get the PC out of your living room. This is the whole idea. :)

For TV functionality, I think most people would be very comfortable with having an Xbox as a 'media center' except TV and then using their cable/satellite provider's PVR.

Brings us back to the connected home picture, the idea is to have all your media everywhere in your home. All-in-one is what the market wants. :cool:

There isn't a Media Center PC in everyone's living room yet because people still don't trust it and the Xbox 360 is a way around that.

A Media Center PC doesn't need to be in your living room now, Extenders (standalone and current Xbox ones) can fill that gap.

I think I saw it in an interview Bill Gates gave where he said they would consider making HD DVD drives available as an upgrade later on. If Sony releases their console with an HD drive, you can bet Microsoft will too.

Consider, sure. "eventually will", not necessary. Sony putting a Blu-Ray drive in the PS3 doesn't mean Microsoft needs an HD-DVD drive in the Xbox 360. A nice addition for sure, but your statement doesn't reflect what was actually said by Gates.





:)





Chris

Some interesting things have been brought up in this discussion and even though I'm joining late let me throw my two cents in.




I disagree that Microsoft wants to sell you a Media Center PC just like Apple wants to sell you an iPod. They don't care about the hardware - they want you to sign up for the service. And that's why I said the Xbox 360 will "kill" Media Center. I don't think Microsoft cares one way or the other if people go with an Xbox, Media Center, or both as long as they get in people's living rooms as the digital hub.





Let's say the Xbox 360 is huge - really huge - so everyone has one. Do you really think that will drive Media Center PC sales? If anything, Microsoft will give Media Center away with Windows Vista release. Just make it part of the Home Edition and give it away - now you are locked into everyone's digital living room. Or you give more features to the Xbox because while people won't put a PC in their living room they will put a game console.





For TV functionality, I think most people would be very comfortable with having an Xbox as a 'media center' except TV and then using their cable/satellite provider's PVR. There isn't a Media Center PC in everyone's living room yet because people still don't trust it and the Xbox 360 is a way around that.





I think I saw it in an interview Bill Gates gave where he said they would consider making HD DVD drives available as an upgrade later on. If Sony releases their console with an HD drive, you can bet Microsoft will too.

People don't care or even understand which model works best. In fact, I'm stating that a mixed environment is what they are craving.

We have to agree to disagree on that one, I really can't make anymore points (other then what I have already made) as to why I think the consumer wants the client/server model. :p

Consumers shouldn't be stuck with having an extender (aka media adapter) that only works with MCE and not have interoperability with any other device. Sure in Microsoft's World that a good thing, but when you own or plan to purchase network devices from third parties that don't use Windows Media Connect, you shut out a whole group of devices. NOT COOL

I'll gladly agree with that, however I come back with the consumer doesn't care, they just want it to work. As with the Gartner guess, the DVD players they speak of will not be out until 2010 because of interoperability. The market is either moving too fast, or interoperability is moving too slow (you can pick). 2010 is too late, as you said. By 2010 we will have a host of devices that are proprietary (more so then an MCE PC and Extender setup) gunning for a spot in your home entertainment network. Mainly, the offerings coming from DirecTV/Dish Net/whatever cable company. They will be offering systems to do the same, and you can bet they will be out before 2010 and I'm betting if you look up 'proprietary' in the dictionary after that point, you will see a picture of those systems.





Back to consumers being "dumb", we don't care. We just want it to work! As you said, "people don't care or understand" (ref: network model for media distro).





Chris Lanier

Chris, you should be a Microsoft Sales or Marketing rep. Here's my bomb back to you. People don't care or even understand which model works best. In fact, I'm stating that a mixed environment is what they are craving. Consumers shouldn't be stuck with having an extender (aka media adapter) that only works with MCE and not have interoperability with any other device. Sure in Microsoft's World that a good thing, but when you own or plan to purchase network devices from third parties that don't use Windows Media Connect, you shut out a whole group of devices. NOT COOL

Alexander Grundner said: Michael Gartenberg - Will Xbox 360 kill Media Center? Nope




Looks like Michael is not convinced either, but I don't see why Microsoft wouldn't want to position the Xbox 360 as a device that talks and shares with "many" than trying to sell it as an extender to a single MCE box.





Yes, I understand that the media server to the extender model, but if you have a device that incorporates a hard drive and can tap into online services, who needs a single server? Just transfer the content among the different devices. That's what UPnP (sanctioned by the DLNA) is all about and hopefully Windows Media Connect will be as well.

I'm going to drop a huge bomb on you Alex, ready for it? :D





They want to sell you a Media Center PC! :p Same reason Apple has the iTMS, they want to sell you an iPod!





I hear what you are saying, get the client/server model out and go with a peer-to-peer (all equal) model. The mass of the market likes the client/server model. They want to be able to have all their media in a central location, and access it anywhere else but there.





Could this work using a peer-to-peer type system? Yes. But what do you do about trival things like making backup's? Go to the device which has the media on it? An Xbox isn't going to burn me a copy of a movie. Copy it to the device that burns? I don't care if I'm using GigE, I still don't what to wait for it to copy over. Plus, I have to guess which Xbox (or which device) the content I want to backup is on. Playing would work fine, but the discovery of media would need to be REALLY good. And how about when a device is running out of HDD space? Do you copy over the network to the device that has more?





With a single sever type setup, you know where the media is, you know how-to access it, you know where to go to back it up, etc.





Chris Lanier

I agree with AG about the 360 being a MCE box instead of an extender.. but to kill it off? I highly doubt it.. It may well become the MCE Lite box for the masses but the techheads will definitely keep using a full blown PC to do that job, if only for the upgradability or productivity side of a PC. I won't be running ColdFusion on my X-360..

Alexander Grundner said: Guess you didn't see Softpedia's news post on the topic: (Slashdot coverage).

Softpedia isn't a news source I trust, plus from direct accounts of MS VP's at the event, I can say for sure that I'm correct in saying Microsoft never said the Xbox 360 will have a HD-DVD drive. That doesn't mean it will not, but Microsoft (Bill Gates) did not say it will. :cool: Trust me.

Michael Gartenberg - Will Xbox 360 kill Media Center? Nope




Looks like Michael is not convinced either, but I don't see why Microsoft wouldn't want to position the Xbox 360 as a device that talks and shares with "many" than trying to sell it as an extender to a single MCE box.





Yes, I understand that the media server to the extender model, but if you have a device that incorporates a hard drive and can tap into online services, who needs a single server? Just transfer the content among the different devices. That's what UPnP (sanctioned by the DLNA) is all about and hopefully Windows Media Connect will be as well.

ChrisL01 said: Oh, Microsoft never has said that the Xbox 360 will ship with a HD-DVD drive, nor have they ever said it will have one at anytime. ;)

Guess you didn't see Softpedia's news post on the topic: (Slashdot coverage).

According to the statements made by Bill Gates in Japan, Xbox 360, the new gaming console may include HD-DVD drives.

Considering that such a decision would postpone the launching date, Microsoft will equip the initial models with classic DVD drives, and only after the new HD-DVD are ready, the Xbox will incorporate them.


GameIndustry.biz also has a post:

"The initial shipments of Xbox 360 will be based on today's DVD format," Gates confirmed at the time, speaking at a conference co-hosted with HD-DVD creator Toshiba in Tokyo.

"We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox 360 will incorporate an additional capacity of an HD-DVD player or something else," he continued.





While far from being a confirmation that HD-DVD will ever be included in Xbox 360, the statement does prove that Microsoft is at least considering upgrading the functionality of the console over its lifespan.

Alexander Grundner said: Any Windows Media Connect enabled device should (theoretically) be able to communicate and share media with the other.

That's the key.. a WMC enabled device.. my question is can the Xbox 360 look like a network share to a non-WMC device, i.e. another PC that not WMC compatible ( I don't know if that means any PC w/o MCE 2005 or earlier) in particluar my SONOS music system?

Genius74 said: You seem to really want CableCard intergration (as do a number of people I guess).. I could care less about it since I perfer OTA HDTV (mainly 'cause it's free) and I'm assuming Cable HD is a big part of wanting the intergration though I could be wrong. I would like the 360 to be able to share it's data as well, is that possible? Can a PC/network device access what's stored on a 360's hard drive (particularly my SONOS system :D )?

Any Windows Media Connect enabled device should (theoretically) be able to communicate and share media with the other.




<font color="Red">Correction:</font> WMC only works with a server PC and extender -- not extender-to-extender

The main draw of Media Center is that it combines a Windows XP PC, TiVo-like recording, and access to all your media from one point. The Xbox 360 can not, and will not replace that functionally.




PC's and other CE devices will continue to fall in price (you can purchase an entry level MCE machine for around $400), and the Xbox 360 will provide a way to extender the media on all PC's to another room. Media Center will add more functionally over WMC on a XP PC.





Media Center isn't gone yet, nor will the Xbox 360 be the one to kill it. :)





Oh, Microsoft never has said that the Xbox 360 will ship with a HD-DVD drive, nor have they ever said it will have one at anytime. ;)

You seem to really want CableCard intergration (as do a number of people I guess).. I could care less about it since I perfer OTA HDTV (mainly 'cause it's free) and I'm assuming Cable HD is a big part of wanting the intergration though I could be wrong. I would like the 360 to be able to share it's data as well, is that possible? Can a PC/network device access what's stored on a 360's hard drive (particularly my SONOS system :D )?

We've just heard that Xbox 360 can pull MP3 and JPEG files from a PlayStation Portable (PSP), so that answers the question of WMA only. However, if Microsoft were to open the Xbox platform to third party media codecs via the Xbox Live Marketplace (as suggested by Chris Lanier), consumers would have the killer media centric device for a fraction of the price of an MCE PC. (Now Microsoft has no excuse for locking down PCs running the next version of Windows.)




Now if Microsoft could add PVR functionality with CableCard support, that would take this device over the top!